Hello Again everyone!
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R2N :: Temple of Set
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Hello Again everyone!
by Seth Shadow Mon 26 Aug 2019 - 1:48
It's been quite a while but I got word that were setting things back up again so I decided to jump in and say hi! Now I don't have anything concrete to post yet, but I have quite a few hobbies and interests that I'm currently working on, and I think a good majority of everyone here might have an interest in.
The first I'd like to just say I'm hoping everyone is doing well, it's been quite a while since we last met up!
So some random guy on here said that a few people are interested in possibly playing board games through the magic of the inter-web's, me and one of my friends in Texas have been testing out tabletop simulator and so far we have been very very happy with the results! Not only is it extremely versatile and user-friendly but to many of the boardgames have added features because of the versatility of programming. For example if anyone is familiar with settlers of Catan, every time you roll the dice, the hexes that have the number of the dice light up. Were still currently looking for some good boardgames to test out but I think it would be a pretty excellent entry-level thing for us all to do if we can somehow schedule that between our busy lives XD
I also have a few games I've been obsessed with for quite a while that I think a few individuals would find interesting, I know a few of us are history and fantasy nuts so I'll be writing up a paragraph on each to see if anyone is interested.
But by far the biggest thing that I'm working on right now is building pretty much from scratch, a continent and its entire history/cultures/peoples for a DND game that I am planning to GM with one of my friends who is also co-creating this. It's going to be using the Pathfinder system as well as lore for the world, I'm not sure if anyone is familiar with Pathfinder but if you enjoy DND I would highly suggest you check it out, five he is wonderful for its simplicity but it lacks a immense amount of depth compared to Pathfinder. We are still in the building blocks of creating this continent but we have things like the map already sorted out, now my friend is much more scientifically inclined than myself so she's undertaken the task of making a scientifically realistic continent! With everything from tectonic plate movements to water and air currents that dictate the biomes all the way down to how the rivers move... A daunting task but she enjoys the work. Unfortunately we don't have anyone to peer review such things so if any of you are even slightly knowledgeable or interested in it I'll be happy to hear your thoughts!
Detailed Biome coming soon!
The first I'd like to just say I'm hoping everyone is doing well, it's been quite a while since we last met up!
So some random guy on here said that a few people are interested in possibly playing board games through the magic of the inter-web's, me and one of my friends in Texas have been testing out tabletop simulator and so far we have been very very happy with the results! Not only is it extremely versatile and user-friendly but to many of the boardgames have added features because of the versatility of programming. For example if anyone is familiar with settlers of Catan, every time you roll the dice, the hexes that have the number of the dice light up. Were still currently looking for some good boardgames to test out but I think it would be a pretty excellent entry-level thing for us all to do if we can somehow schedule that between our busy lives XD
I also have a few games I've been obsessed with for quite a while that I think a few individuals would find interesting, I know a few of us are history and fantasy nuts so I'll be writing up a paragraph on each to see if anyone is interested.
But by far the biggest thing that I'm working on right now is building pretty much from scratch, a continent and its entire history/cultures/peoples for a DND game that I am planning to GM with one of my friends who is also co-creating this. It's going to be using the Pathfinder system as well as lore for the world, I'm not sure if anyone is familiar with Pathfinder but if you enjoy DND I would highly suggest you check it out, five he is wonderful for its simplicity but it lacks a immense amount of depth compared to Pathfinder. We are still in the building blocks of creating this continent but we have things like the map already sorted out, now my friend is much more scientifically inclined than myself so she's undertaken the task of making a scientifically realistic continent! With everything from tectonic plate movements to water and air currents that dictate the biomes all the way down to how the rivers move... A daunting task but she enjoys the work. Unfortunately we don't have anyone to peer review such things so if any of you are even slightly knowledgeable or interested in it I'll be happy to hear your thoughts!
Detailed Biome coming soon!
Seth Shadow- Posts : 123
Join date : 2015-06-22
Age : 28
Location : North Farm
Re: Hello Again everyone!
by Hobb Wed 28 Aug 2019 - 13:35
Greetings, Seth!
What table-top simulator? I've tried 'roll20' with varying degrees of success.
The map looks like a deformed Australia and New Zealand - this isn't connected to that earlier Australia-based project you were working on is it? Depending on the jet streams that bi-secting mountain range is going to create some interesting patterns.
The question of making 'realistic' fantasy has intrigued me for the last few years, and games like Dwarf Fortress and Rim World have given me plenty of food for thought. I'm still formulating my thoughts on the topics, but I would still inject (my usual) note of caution. From my own bitter personal experience, I now believe trying to create a "scientifically realistic" fantasy world is an interesting scientific exercise but rarely results in a more enjoyable game.
I understand this urge. I live in a rural area and my deepest conception of 'fantasy' is based in the richness of the natural world. Fantasy needs geogolgy (mountain forts & gems), ecology (cool biomes from utopian pastorals to beneath the waves), meteorology (thunder clouds and rainbows), astronomy (orreys and telescopes sticking out of wizard towers), ect... Also, the chance to learn some hard science while doing soft fantasy is appealing. It justifies doing something silly.
Much of my own game designing still has 'simulation' as it's center of gravity. There are #whole sub-fourms# on R2N devoted to integrating Atlantic wind and ocean currents into steampunk ship games. The creation of overlapping models (weather, ocean, trading, politics) that interact and produce emergent game effects is a holy grail. This is the attraction of much of 'science fiction', to extrapolate elements of science through fiction.
So it is as someone who has spent a majority of their life subscribing to the 'materialist' or 'simulations' model fantasy that I would caution against it. I now believe that fantasy that devotes itself too strongly to 'simulation' and 'materialism' is specifically avoiding the freedom that fantasy gives to explore the inner realms of imagery, morality and spirituality.
'World Creation' takes hard work, often a computer-generated level of work, but players only care how they can interact with it - often it is only other game designers that can appreciated that amount of detail.
Please post any more descriptions of this world - and if you desire we can brainstorms ideas (it will be hard to stop us brain-storming
), but take a moment to consider the major focus on 'fully realized worlds' and 'realism' in American fantasy and what might be lost in conceiving of fantasy in that framework.
What table-top simulator? I've tried 'roll20' with varying degrees of success.
The map looks like a deformed Australia and New Zealand - this isn't connected to that earlier Australia-based project you were working on is it? Depending on the jet streams that bi-secting mountain range is going to create some interesting patterns.
The question of making 'realistic' fantasy has intrigued me for the last few years, and games like Dwarf Fortress and Rim World have given me plenty of food for thought. I'm still formulating my thoughts on the topics, but I would still inject (my usual) note of caution. From my own bitter personal experience, I now believe trying to create a "scientifically realistic" fantasy world is an interesting scientific exercise but rarely results in a more enjoyable game.
I understand this urge. I live in a rural area and my deepest conception of 'fantasy' is based in the richness of the natural world. Fantasy needs geogolgy (mountain forts & gems), ecology (cool biomes from utopian pastorals to beneath the waves), meteorology (thunder clouds and rainbows), astronomy (orreys and telescopes sticking out of wizard towers), ect... Also, the chance to learn some hard science while doing soft fantasy is appealing. It justifies doing something silly.
Much of my own game designing still has 'simulation' as it's center of gravity. There are #whole sub-fourms# on R2N devoted to integrating Atlantic wind and ocean currents into steampunk ship games. The creation of overlapping models (weather, ocean, trading, politics) that interact and produce emergent game effects is a holy grail. This is the attraction of much of 'science fiction', to extrapolate elements of science through fiction.
So it is as someone who has spent a majority of their life subscribing to the 'materialist' or 'simulations' model fantasy that I would caution against it. I now believe that fantasy that devotes itself too strongly to 'simulation' and 'materialism' is specifically avoiding the freedom that fantasy gives to explore the inner realms of imagery, morality and spirituality.
- click here to continue my ramblings on this interesting topic:
Once you start looking for it, you'll find the urge to "materialize" fantasy - to make it 'realistic' through densely detailed histories, grim violence, or scientifically valid explanations - is central to modern Western fantasy. You can find this as far back as the Greek skeptics but it is the literary critics of the 1700s and 1800s that we begin with. The wide-spread main cultural view of 'fantasy' literature in these era was that it was for children. Their core of idea of 'fantasy' were fairy tales, a type of a tale that revels in irrationality. Explorations of modern manners and social situations were expected of adult literature, maybe some historical romances with knights - but no dragons! Women had more freedom to explore fantasy writing because they were associated with children.
So when most of the pillars of fantasy were created in the 1930s - like Conan and Middle Earth - they are framed as earlier historical periods of Earth with 'realistic' cultures based on historical research. The 'dragons' in Conan are dinosaurs, Tolkien's languages follow phonetic rules, even Lovecraft's monsters are dissect-able biological creatures. Even sci-fi 'pulp' magazines of that era could be very elitist toward fantasy, many fantasy stories were framed as time-travel or reincarnation to avoid be just fantasy.
The fantasy of the 1950s was even more ironic and modern. Often the heroes were modern professionals transported to fantasy worlds - Pratt and Fletcher's hero was a psychologist, Poul Anderson's hero was a Danish WWII commando - who explain the fantasy world using modern science: the dragons breath methane, the gods are neurotics, famous historical figures are just average people. These novelist wanted to prove they were 'serious' even when writing comedic fantasies. The gold standard in both fantasy and sci-fi were 'realistic' worlds, technology and alien species. The growing popularity of Tolkien's obsessively detailed 'world-building' helped to set this focus as the default for fantasy.
The 'new wave' fantasies of the 1970s break with this tradition and start offering surreal or symbolic fantasies with roots way-back in fairy tales and the religious side of fantasy. A whole flood of New Age ideas enter into fantasy, especially the topics of neo-pagan, Eastern and ritual magic that had always appeared in the 'pulp genre. Tolkien's work is very academic but it also soaking in Catholic spirituality and people experienced this. This crash of New Age spiritualism into the standard 'materialist' or 'ironic' fantasy genre IS modern fantasy. (i.e some occult symbolism, a detailed family tree and/or map, and a party of Tolkien-esque adventures)
The D&D stream of fantasy is deeply rooted in the fantasy of the 1950s and 1930 because the creators were baby-boomers. Their miniature war-gaming background often left them more obsessed with "realism" and this is reflected in the game: dragons spit chlorine, dungeons are suppose to be "ecological correct", endless discussion about 'realistic' weapons and armour, monsters are made biological with gestation times and evolutionary history. Yet the game is also wrapped in occult trappings and neo-paganism. And the deep influence of the 1950s meant it was also very 'ironic', full of puns, cartoons and cynicism. "Semi-ironic, new-age war-gaming" is a weird beast - but it became the major genre of fantasy.
This very clash of the physical sciences with the realms of the spirit and mind is intoxicating. 'Materializing' monsters still appeals to me and many others. But in reading the essays of the 1970s where fantasy authors demand 'realistic' fantasy, it came off as just bullying. Every attempt to enforce 'realism' quickly became about 'masculine, serious, hard-core' fantasy where writers must include realism like slavery, rape, prevailing wind-patterns, enough calories for dragons and accurate encumbrance rate for brigandine armour, or their were 'not serious'.
It took me a long-time to unlearn this mid-set. It helped that I saw the academic version of this where math and statistic, animal experimentation and modern economics were always 'serious' and 'manly' no matter how mistaken, illogical or pointless they were. That's where I saw being 'serious' as the masculine posturing it was. Being 'serious' didn't even mean being scientific or logical or materialist, much less moral. It really meant a type of sneer, an attempt to frighten off questioners, and most fundamentally, it was an excuse to dismiss almost all progressive social movements as 'not serious'. The 'alt-right' is still going on about 'clown culture' today for the exact same politic purpose...
Here is an example, most early D&D modules are simulations of small-scale, low-intensity warfare against unconventional combatants. In simpler language, a special forces team in a frontier setting combating the local tribes. The more realistic this is the more graphic the interrogations, the higher necessity of killing women, children and prisoners, ect... So you can see D&D's dilemma, they want "realist" fantasy but their basic scenario is small-unit warfare, most 13-year old boys are not ready to deal with the ethics of dealing with prisoners of war, so how to solve this? They moved the focus onto 'ecological correctness' while avoiding any discussion or mention of the politics of having plate-mail Cowboys killing green-skinned Indians.
"Ecological correct" D&D did bring in a dose of liberal environmentalism but at the price of refusing to engage in any larger talk of morality and politics. Today, American liberals are still more comfortable talking 'climate change' than the clear criminality of their wars.
So you are allowed to criticize D&D because there is not enough prey in a dungeon to support the caloric intake of Bugbear tribe but not the politics of having to kill the Bugbears for entertainment. If you question the reactionary politics of D&D you were "not serious" because violence is "realistic" and should go back to "fairy tales" if you are not "hard-core" enough. The early elitist criticisms of fantasy as 'silly' and 'effeminate' were internalized and now used by fantasy writers themselves to enforce a reactionary form of fantasy, demanding that others recognize the 'realism' of their ugly power fantasies of killing, rape and theft.
I grew-up on "semi-ironic, new-age war-gaming" fantasy, and the internet is full of people who have taken this genre and made it into something better, but I wonder what realms of fantasy are denied by using that as our default fantasy
'World Creation' takes hard work, often a computer-generated level of work, but players only care how they can interact with it - often it is only other game designers that can appreciated that amount of detail.
Please post any more descriptions of this world - and if you desire we can brainstorms ideas (it will be hard to stop us brain-storming
), but take a moment to consider the major focus on 'fully realized worlds' and 'realism' in American fantasy and what might be lost in conceiving of fantasy in that framework.Last edited by Hobb on Fri 30 Aug 2019 - 13:41; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Hello Again everyone!
by Reb Fri 30 Aug 2019 - 8:37
It really is a fine line between playablity and realism. I too have a burning urge for games to have living enivironment and have spent a lot of time pondering over ideas of how to impliment these simulations into board or role playing games. The idea of a "weather simulator" has been an intermittent focus for a long time now.
The map to me looks like a bit like Spain, but it could be any pennisula that sticks out into the water. Do you have any idea of what latitude and longitude this area will range from?
The map to me looks like a bit like Spain, but it could be any pennisula that sticks out into the water. Do you have any idea of what latitude and longitude this area will range from?
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Re: Hello Again everyone!
by Hobb Fri 30 Aug 2019 - 12:37
I like the nice sheltered bay on the west coast and it is doubly sheltered by that huge mountain behind it.
But that '1000 islands' archipelago to the north will be trouble - those places are havens for pirates and malcontents....
But that '1000 islands' archipelago to the north will be trouble - those places are havens for pirates and malcontents....
Hobb- Admin
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Re: Hello Again everyone!
by Hobb Mon 9 Sep 2019 - 14:19
The owner of this world might be an absentee landlord. But so are all modern Gods!
[Well, except for those Gods who still show-up to help sports-teams win Superbowls, guide planes into the WTCs and comfort the victims of mass shooting...]
Absentee Gods are a good thing. They do all the work of Creation but leave the exploration to mere mortals. Kinda like RPG designers...
I've had my eye on a spot in that '1000 islands' archipelago on the western coast. Something tucked in enough to be sheltered from the ocean's might, but also not at the mouth of the delta where might be heavily populated. So I was thinking of about here..
And I'll use my hand-coded 'Fantasy Generator'
to create a gang to inhabit the island...
Most randomly-generated items take some work but the only change I would make is to insist the 'pike-fighting' refers to giant fish not pole-arms. Both the elderly aquatic trolls and the hydroponic farmers have trouble with those punky pike.
[Well, except for those Gods who still show-up to help sports-teams win Superbowls, guide planes into the WTCs and comfort the victims of mass shooting...]
Absentee Gods are a good thing. They do all the work of Creation but leave the exploration to mere mortals. Kinda like RPG designers...
I've had my eye on a spot in that '1000 islands' archipelago on the western coast. Something tucked in enough to be sheltered from the ocean's might, but also not at the mouth of the delta where might be heavily populated. So I was thinking of about here..
And I'll use my hand-coded 'Fantasy Generator'
to create a gang to inhabit the island...Hobb's 'Xaos' Generator wrote:
19 Neutral, water-walking, Human tree-fanciers lead by a Bosun
+eight aquatic troll elders wielding hatchets. They were allied through mutual respect for each other's pike-fighting skills
Most randomly-generated items take some work but the only change I would make is to insist the 'pike-fighting' refers to giant fish not pole-arms. Both the elderly aquatic trolls and the hydroponic farmers have trouble with those punky pike.
Hobb- Admin
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Re: Hello Again everyone!
by Seth Shadow Fri 13 Sep 2019 - 21:16
Haha sorry for the abrupt disappearance after my return! I was holding off to come back with a bit of information on the projects I'm working on, but unfortunately my friends life has become rather busy and I'm in the middle of looking for a job so most of our projects have been put on hold for the time being 
I do want to thank everyone for their suggestions though! And lay everyone's fears to rest as though we are using a somewhat realistic placement for terrain and biomes, the biggest reason for doing such is to give us good ground works to build up from! Hyper realism isn't exactly my thing and she just simply wants a good foundation that people won't complain about and of course Pathfinder is a very fantasy-esque setting, with this particular continent being even more so.
https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Sarusan
That particular link encompasses the majority of the information canonically known on the location. We're building the rest from scratch, and planning to go pretty heavy on the mega fauna and flora aspects, when we had to put a hold on it we were discussing concepts of a multi-levelled jungle biome, with each level down from the top getting periodically less and less light. I can definitely let you know though that much of the Western continent is currently uninhabitable by large population civilizations due to the number of hostile elements, with only reminiscence of pre-existing civilizations and savage tribes dotting the landscape.
Thanks again though for everyones suggestions and interests! I look forward to passing ideas through you guys when we have some actual bloody time to work on it XD
and I think I might need to get my hands on that random generator sometime, if I spin it enough times I'm sure to get quite a bit of hilarity out of it!
I do want to thank everyone for their suggestions though! And lay everyone's fears to rest as though we are using a somewhat realistic placement for terrain and biomes, the biggest reason for doing such is to give us good ground works to build up from! Hyper realism isn't exactly my thing and she just simply wants a good foundation that people won't complain about
and of course Pathfinder is a very fantasy-esque setting, with this particular continent being even more so.https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Sarusan
That particular link encompasses the majority of the information canonically known on the location. We're building the rest from scratch, and planning to go pretty heavy on the mega fauna and flora aspects, when we had to put a hold on it we were discussing concepts of a multi-levelled jungle biome, with each level down from the top getting periodically less and less light. I can definitely let you know though that much of the Western continent is currently uninhabitable by large population civilizations due to the number of hostile elements, with only reminiscence of pre-existing civilizations and savage tribes dotting the landscape.
Thanks again though for everyones suggestions and interests! I look forward to passing ideas through you guys when we have some actual bloody time to work on it XD
and I think I might need to get my hands on that random generator sometime, if I spin it enough times I'm sure to get quite a bit of hilarity out of it!
Seth Shadow- Posts : 123
Join date : 2015-06-22
Age : 28
Location : North Farm
Re: Hello Again everyone!
by Hobb Tue 24 Sep 2019 - 15:52
If you like the absurdity and RPG random charts, like I do, than the random generator is a godsend, half idea generator and half fantasy parody.
I've been doing further reading into 'materialist fantasy' and it seems that all western fantasies (until the French 'symbolist' weirdos) had to have either an educational or moral purpose. My current view is this rationalist impulse has mutated into the current obsession (...or people will complain!) with "realism". 'Realism' is a great fantasy target because it is both amoral and largely meaningless.
How is some random fan suppose to really know if something is an accurate portrayal of weather systems when massive super-computers cannot model it? Fans want the symbols of 'realism', which is often a map, some vague ecology and some dark-grim touches (charts for bodily injuries, torture and America's favorite fetish: slavery!).
I wouldn't want to go back to the Victorian Era when every fantasy had a moral attached, nor is it fair to expect RPGs to be too educational. But modern culture's solution of 'materialist fantasy' and 'realism' has lead to excessive world-building and sadism. This is not a critique as much as it is me thinking out loud.
I've been doing further reading into 'materialist fantasy' and it seems that all western fantasies (until the French 'symbolist' weirdos) had to have either an educational or moral purpose. My current view is this rationalist impulse has mutated into the current obsession (...or people will complain!) with "realism". 'Realism' is a great fantasy target because it is both amoral and largely meaningless.
How is some random fan suppose to really know if something is an accurate portrayal of weather systems when massive super-computers cannot model it? Fans want the symbols of 'realism', which is often a map, some vague ecology and some dark-grim touches (charts for bodily injuries, torture and America's favorite fetish: slavery!).
I wouldn't want to go back to the Victorian Era when every fantasy had a moral attached, nor is it fair to expect RPGs to be too educational. But modern culture's solution of 'materialist fantasy' and 'realism' has lead to excessive world-building and sadism. This is not a critique as much as it is me thinking out loud.
Last edited by Hobb on Tue 24 Sep 2019 - 16:25; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Hello Again everyone!
by Hobb Tue 24 Sep 2019 - 16:07
Looking at Golarion map, Sarusan is a fantasy Australia. Australia with marsupials & dinoSaruans. Also snakepeople.
Just raid Australian cultures - both indigenous and settler - for ideas. Like any remote continent used as imperial penal colony Australia has a dark history. A history that is currently being revealed...
Google Map showing Australian colonial massacres
or how about Ned Kelly - the armoured bandit...
or the Megalania (mega-monitor lizards)...
and, of course, the greatest big-budget movie made in the last 20 years...
I dislike Australia because they suck-up to the Americans way more than most Commonwealth countries, but it is Canada's southern twin and a fascinating country.
Here is the only pathfinder map I knew until today, apparently there are whole other continents...
Just raid Australian cultures - both indigenous and settler - for ideas. Like any remote continent used as imperial penal colony Australia has a dark history. A history that is currently being revealed...
Google Map showing Australian colonial massacres
or how about Ned Kelly - the armoured bandit...
or the Megalania (mega-monitor lizards)...
and, of course, the greatest big-budget movie made in the last 20 years...
I dislike Australia because they suck-up to the Americans way more than most Commonwealth countries, but it is Canada's southern twin and a fascinating country.
Here is the only pathfinder map I knew until today, apparently there are whole other continents...
Last edited by Hobb on Tue 24 Sep 2019 - 16:42; edited 1 time in total
Hobb- Admin
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Re: Hello Again everyone!
by Hobb Tue 24 Sep 2019 - 16:19
Here is our previous discussion of "Fantasy Australia":
https://roadtonowhere.forumotion.org/t329-the-ultimate-question-and-the-ultimate-test#1258
The name 'Surasan' never appears in our discussion but it must be the same "Fantasy Australia". It was that thread where I first started looking into Australia's colonial history
But my 'Australian History (Colonization)' skill is still probably at 3%...
https://roadtonowhere.forumotion.org/t329-the-ultimate-question-and-the-ultimate-test#1258
The name 'Surasan' never appears in our discussion but it must be the same "Fantasy Australia". It was that thread where I first started looking into Australia's colonial history
But my 'Australian History (Colonization)' skill is still probably at 3%...
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Re: Hello Again everyone!
by Hobb Wed 23 Oct 2019 - 13:55
I keep chipping away at trying under this intoxicating phantasmagoria called 'the fantasy genre' by deepening my appreciating of its' (often dark) wonders while applying the tools of critical reason to it. Sometimes it feels like studying pornography, or a similarly disreputable subject, but I guess that also keeps me interested.
The aesthetic and ethical poles on fantasy are often at opposite ends. This is a feature (not a bug) of American fantasy that is primarily focused on returning to the amorality of frontier life. The USA continental frontiers closed in 1890, so they started grabbing Pacific islands but post-WWII that sort of land-grab was much harder to do. Next we get JFK's "new frontier" campaign of conquering social problems at home and defeating communism abroad, and its close companion Star Trek's "space - the final frontier".
Yet by the 1970s, real-world frontiers, with their seductive lack of ethics but chance for mega-profits, were scarce. Yet fantasy frontiers were becoming more viable. Books, TV, movies, RPGs offered frontiers in the historical Old West (TSR second book was Boot Hill), the Orient, Africa, Middle Earth, Mars, and the Old West of Tatooine.
We come to RPG fantasy to return to a frontier. I suspect that RPGs are an advanced form of settler nostalgia. Cities and homes are stifling, two generations ago this land was wilderness...
This might be why that in all my research the best essay I've read on D&D's monster manual (and RPG bestiaries) is by an Australian guy named Matthew Chrulew. Canada and Australia both have a strong tie to the British but we live as quasi-colonies of the US Empire. We know out Anglo (Arturian, Tolkien) and we know are American (Pulp, D&D) fantasy. More importantly, we are still largely frontier continents.
Chrulew and I share a deep point of contact: when we want 'fantasy' we just go for a walk and we are soaking in big nature and the gothic ruins of a recent settler past. Much of the Canadian and Australian landscape is one of dark amoral wonder. Fantasy pushes those same buttons and it is why I keep returning to it.
We want to return to spots of vital barbarism where civilization dwindles, but fantasy frontier are historical frontiers first, this is the big ethical catch. If we want raw plunder, hunting, dealing with "savages", frontier justice, entrepurnial violence, discovery and wonder against the backdrop of the amorality of nature, we have to recognize that these situations occurred in our not-too-distant settler histories.
I really shouldn't be dragging Chrulew along with me (his reading of D&D is from "ecocriticism and zoocriticism) but his 2006 essay “Masters of the Wild”: Animals and the Environment in Dungeons & Dragons is a ray of light in D&D criticism. I trying to track down 'Medievalism and Gothic in Australian Culture' to find another of his essays.
The aesthetic and ethical poles on fantasy are often at opposite ends. This is a feature (not a bug) of American fantasy that is primarily focused on returning to the amorality of frontier life. The USA continental frontiers closed in 1890, so they started grabbing Pacific islands but post-WWII that sort of land-grab was much harder to do. Next we get JFK's "new frontier" campaign of conquering social problems at home and defeating communism abroad, and its close companion Star Trek's "space - the final frontier".
Yet by the 1970s, real-world frontiers, with their seductive lack of ethics but chance for mega-profits, were scarce. Yet fantasy frontiers were becoming more viable. Books, TV, movies, RPGs offered frontiers in the historical Old West (TSR second book was Boot Hill), the Orient, Africa, Middle Earth, Mars, and the Old West of Tatooine.
We come to RPG fantasy to return to a frontier. I suspect that RPGs are an advanced form of settler nostalgia. Cities and homes are stifling, two generations ago this land was wilderness...
This might be why that in all my research the best essay I've read on D&D's monster manual (and RPG bestiaries) is by an Australian guy named Matthew Chrulew. Canada and Australia both have a strong tie to the British but we live as quasi-colonies of the US Empire. We know out Anglo (Arturian, Tolkien) and we know are American (Pulp, D&D) fantasy. More importantly, we are still largely frontier continents.
Chrulew and I share a deep point of contact: when we want 'fantasy' we just go for a walk and we are soaking in big nature and the gothic ruins of a recent settler past. Much of the Canadian and Australian landscape is one of dark amoral wonder. Fantasy pushes those same buttons and it is why I keep returning to it.
We want to return to spots of vital barbarism where civilization dwindles, but fantasy frontier are historical frontiers first, this is the big ethical catch. If we want raw plunder, hunting, dealing with "savages", frontier justice, entrepurnial violence, discovery and wonder against the backdrop of the amorality of nature, we have to recognize that these situations occurred in our not-too-distant settler histories.
I really shouldn't be dragging Chrulew along with me (his reading of D&D is from "ecocriticism and zoocriticism) but his 2006 essay “Masters of the Wild”: Animals and the Environment in Dungeons & Dragons is a ray of light in D&D criticism. I trying to track down 'Medievalism and Gothic in Australian Culture' to find another of his essays.
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